William ap ROBERT

Birth:

Abt 1596

of Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Marriage:

Abt 1621

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Father:

Robert ap HOWELL

Mother:

Mrs. Robert ap HOWELL

Sources:

Cilcain, Flintshire, North Wales Parish Registers, Vol. 1, (FHL#942.935/cl, K29c)

Notes:

BIRTH: Not located.
MARRIAGE:
DEATH:

BAPTISM, ENDOWMENT, SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI.
Surname - William Roberts and Angharad John abt 1596.
Wife (1)Angharad -12 Aug 1996 SLAKE Computer IGI .
Wife(2) Margaret- 17 Mar 1994 SLAKE Computer IGI Addendum surname

NAME: Welch Patronymic name: William ap Robert ap Howell ap Rees Some of the records show an incorrect estimated birth date.

BAPTISM, ENDOWMENT, SEALED TO PARENTS & SPOUSE: Computer IGI.
Marr: Abt 1621 Place:Cilcain, Flints, Wals , Ref. F800231 s/n 00261-7 MFID: 00087975

"These children were all christened with the name of William ap Robert ap Howell, likewise the son (Hugh) by William's second wife, Margaret.

"I made careful searches and study of the son-father tie between Robert and William ap Robert ap Howell. I had previously read an article in Y Cymmrdor by an authorirty on Welsh names, a man named Morris.

"In Wales, in the Cilcain area the majority of families switched to surnames in the period from 1650 to 1565. In the case of William ap Robert ap Howell, if he made the change while the children were still at home, the family surname would have become ROBERTS. If the children were grown and made the change themselves they would have taken the surname WILLIAMS, from their father.

"I searched the parish register of Cilcain for all the persons with the given names of all the children of William ap Roabert ap Howell, except those buried as infants, in their roles as husband or wife in their own families. I could ascertain no Williams surname springing from the children of William ap Robert ap Howell. However, I could recognize only two from this family with the Roberts surname. These were John and Robert.
"In the case of Robert Roberts, I could find only one child in the Cilcain register with the given name of Robert for many months either before or after the child christened Robert of William ap Robert ap Howell; and he was the only child christened Robert in a much longer period who had a father or grandfather with the name Robert - that is the father had the name Robert himself or the father's father was named Robert and therefor the father himself carried the name ap Robert as in the case of William ap Robert.

"I reached the conclusion when in Cilcain that William ap Robert ap Howell was the father of my forebear Robert Roberts. I have since done searching in six of the surrounding parishes and nothing I have discovered in these wider searches has shown or indicated a different conclusion."

Notes to accompany Roberts Family Chart. (Cilcain)

Wm ap Robert ap Howell, Robert ap Robert & Hugh ap Robert were probably brothers.
Robert Roberts who married Margaret verch John was evidently prominent as was John Roberts senior who married Lucy Hughes.
The Mostyns and Wynnes were gentry and the Robert Roberts who married Dorothea was a very prominent man from the bold style in which they entered the records of his family events. I assume he was a son of the first Robert Roberts.
Hugh Roberts who married Lucy James went to live at the same farm village where Robert Roberts and Dorothy Mostyn had lived so I assume Robert may have been his uncle.
Wm Roberts died in Llyssycoed Township. He may have been a son of Wm ap Robert ap Howell and grandfather of Hugh and Thomas who lived in that township later. John Roberts who married Jane Twist lived there for a time. He may have been a grand nephew of Wm.
I searched diligently for any Hugh Roberts born 1680-1722 and the only records I could find was the one for 1701 and the one for 1709.
I combed the records for John Roberts from 1654 to 1676 and could find but one born 1664. Since there was a John Roberts raising a family at that time there probably were other Johns born and some may have lived. I assume that the John Roberts who married Lucy Hughes was the father of Hugh, though it may have been another John. I assume this because the family of John & Lucy stopped short in 1700 and no more entries appear. There is a bare chance that the name Ursula is a mistake. There was a Roger Mostyn, Esquire in Cilcain at the time whose wife was named Ursula, and they had a daughter Ursula who died about the time of the birth of Hugh. The minister may have copied the wrong name. That of course is only a mere surmise - not to be paid attention.
I searched closely for any Robert born 1650-1620 but found only one - the son of Wm ap Robert ap Howell. It would seem more reasonable for him to have been the son of Robert ap Robert but I could find no such entry. This Robert was a prominent man as judged by the entry. They gave more room and wrote with big bold hand or flourishes when they recorded events for the prominent folks. Since Wm was also a prominent man his son Robert may have taken the surname Roberts about 1650 or 1660 when most of them did so in this town. This writing was very hard to read. Undoubtedly I missed entries that when the record is copied or printed, will help to clear up the uncertainties.
Apropos the parentage of Mary Roberts, there were two Marys born in 1731, one a cousin of Hugh and the other the daughter of Robert & Eliz. The witnesses at the wedding were two John Jones. One was evidently a parish clerk who often acted as a witness. The other may have been a relative or friend. If he was a maternal grandfather, this indicates that Mary was not Hugh's cousin. I did not find the record of the birth of this Robert, but I did not search closely for it.

Howard S. Bennion

Angharad verch JOHN ROBERT

Birth:

Abt 1600

of Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Father:

John ROBERT

Mother:

Mrs. John ROBERT

Notes:

                   NAME:
    Welch patronymic name listed as: Angharad verch John


BAPTISM: F.H.L. Film #183,576, page 81, #2778.  Listed as Angharad Roberts.
ENDOWMENT: F.H.L. Film #184,229, page 1,145, #25,479.   "Angharad Roberts (F. John Roberts) (H.  William ap Robert ap Howell.  Born about 1609 Alcain [Cilcain]."
SEALED TO PARENTS & SPOUSE: Computer IGI under Angharad John.
	Ordinances performed again, IGI, Flintshire, Wales, D0165, P.  22. Given name.
	 3 Mar 1988 SLAKE           14 Apr 1988 SLAKE
	B. 15 Mar 1988 SLAKE        E. 12 May 1988 SLAKE
              S/P: 16 May 1988 SLAKE

Children

Marriage

Edward ap WILLIAM

Chr:

21 Dec 1622

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Death:

Marr:

Notes:

                   BIRTH: Cilcain Parish Records, 942.935cl  K29c Vol. 1, p.16, "Edward, son of William ap Robert ap Howell (Dolvechle) Dec. 31, 1622."
MARRIAGE:

BAPTIZED, ENDOWED AND SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI

Pyers ap WILLIAM

Chr:

4 Apr 1627

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Burial:

11 Apr 1627

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Marr:

Notes:

                   NAME:  Christened as Pyers son of William ap Robert ap Howell.
No Christening was found on the film or in the book.
BURIAL: Cilcain Parish Register, F.H.L. Film #275,782. & Cilcain Parish Register, 942.935cl, K29c Vol.1, p. 13, Burials. "1627 Pyers sonne of William ap Robert ap Howell and Angharad, the fourth day of April was buried."  The parish film gives the date of burial as the fourth day of April while the indexed book of the parish records gives the date as the 11th of April.

BAPTIZED, ENDOWED AND SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI Not located on current IGI.

Elizabeth verch WILLIAM

Chr:

20 Nov 1630

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Death:

Marr:

Notes:

                   Elizabeth verch WILLIAM-282 (Listed as Elizabeth Williams)
BIRTH: Cilcain Parish Records, 942.935cl  K29c Vol. 1, p.20. "Elizabeth daughter of William ap Robert ap Howell, 20 Nov 1630."
MARRIAGE:

BAPTIZED: F.H.L. Film #183,476 SLAKE, p.#81. & Computer IGI.
ENDOWED: F.H.L. Film#184,229, P. 1,176, #26,180. Roberts, Elizabeth, (p. Wm Roberts and Angharad Roberts, Chr. 22 Nov. 1630, Bap. 17 Sep 1938. & Computer IGI.
SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI.

Also under Given Name.

Grace verch WILLIAM

Chr:

14 Nov 1632

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Burial:

16 Dec 1632

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Marr:

Notes:

                   Grace verch WILLIAM-283 (Listed as Grace Roberts with the above parents.)
BIRTH: Cilcain Parish Records, 942.935cl  K29c Vol. 1, p.21.  Baptisms. "Grace daughter of William ap Robert ap Howell, 14 Nov 1632."
MARRIAGE:
BURIAL: Cilcain Parish Records, 942,935cl, K29c Vol 1, p. 15, Burials. "16 Dec 1632 Grace daughter of William ap Robert ap Howell"

BAPTIZED: F.H.L. Film #183,576 SLAKE 81, #2780. & Computer IGI.
ENDOWED:  F.H.L. Film #184,229 SLAKE, p. 1,176,#26,181. & Computer IGI.
"Roberts, Grace  (p. William Roberts & Angharad Roberts) 22 Dec 1632, Cilcain, Flints Wales, Bap. 17 Sept 1938."
SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI.
Also under Given name.

John ap WILLIAM

Chr:

2 Jan 1633/34

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Death:

Anne

Marr:

Abt 1655

of Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Notes:

                   CHRISTENED: Cilcain Parish Records, 942.935cl  K20c Vol. 1, p.22. "John son of William ap Robert ap Howell, 2 Jan 1633\1634."
   	"In Wales, in the Cilcain area the majority of families switched to surnames in the period from     1650 to 1565.  In the case of William ap Robert ap Howell, if he made the change while the children were still at home, the family surname would have become ROBERTS.  If the children were grown and made the change themselves they would have taken the surname WILLIAMS, from their father.
	"I searched the parish register of Cilcain for all the persons with the given names of all the children of William ap Robert ap Howell, except those buried as infants, in their roles as husband or wife in their own families.  I could ascertain no Williams surname springing from the children of William  ap Robert ap Howell.  However, I could recognize only two from this family with the Roberts surname.  These were John and Robert.     Howard S. Bennion
MARRIAGE:

BAPTIZED:  F.H.L. Film #183,576 SLAKE, p. 75, #2575.
ENDOWED: F.H.L. Film #184,314 SLAKE, #25,340, p. 1147.
SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI Addendum given name.
SEALED TO SPOUSE: Computer IGI Addendum, given name.

Griffith ap WILLIAM

Chr:

1 Feb 1635/36

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Death:

Marr:

Notes:

                   BIRTH: Cilcain Parish Records, 942.935cl  K20c Vol. 1, p.23. "Griffith, son of William ap Robert ap Howell Angharad verch John Roberts, 1 Feb 1635\6."
MARRIAGE:

BAPTIZED, ENDOWED AND SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI.

Robert ap WILLIAM

Chr:

15 Jan 1637/38

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Death:

Margaret verch John ap Richard ap JOHN THOMAS

Marr:

Abt 1657

of Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Notes:

Robert ROBERTS-266(Robert ap WILLIAM)
CHRISTENING: Cilcain Parish Register, 942.935 Cl K29c, Vol.1, Page 24.
"15 Jan 1637/38 Robert son of William ap Robert ap Howell and Angharad verch John."
MARRIAGE: Not located.

BAPTISM, ENDOWMENT & SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI.
SEALED TO SPOUSE: COMPUTER IGI Addendum surname, birth year (1638 used) as marriage date reference.

"I searched the parish register of Cilcain for all the persons with the given names of all the children of William ap Roabert ap Howell, except those buried as infants, in their roles as husband or wife in their own families. I could ascertain no Williams surname springing from the children of William ap Robert ap Howell However, I could recognize only two from this family with the Roberts surname. These were John and Robert.
"In the case of Robert Roberts, I could find only one child in the Cilcain register with the given name of Robert for many months either before or after the child christened Robert of William ap Robert ap Howell: and he was the only child christened Robert in a much longer period who had a father or grandfather with the name Robert - that is the father had the name Robert himself or the father's father was named Robert and therefor the father himself carried the name ap Robert as in the case of William ap Robert.
"I reached the conclusion when in Cilcain that William ap Robert ap Howell was the father of my forebear Robert Roberts. I have since done searching in six of the surrounding parishes and nothing have discovered in these wider searches has shown or indicated a different conclusion."
Howard S. Bennion

Ann verch WILLIAM

Chr:

20 Apr 1639

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Death:

Marr:

Notes:

                      Ann verch WILLIAM-286 (Listed as Ann William)
BIRTH:  Cilcain Parish Records, 942.935cl  K29c Vol. 1, p.24.
	"Ann verch daughter of William ap Robert ap Howell and Angharad, 20 April  1639."

BAPTISM, ENDOWMENT & SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI.

Hugh AP WILLIAM

Birth:

Abt 1640

of Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Burial:

24 May 1641

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Marr:

Notes:

                   CHILD 9 - Hugh ROBERTS-1123
BIRTH: Not located.
BURIED: Cilcain Parish Records, 942.935/Cl K29c, Vol. 1., p.18.
	24 May 1641 Hugh ap William ap Robert buried. Died as an infant.

SEALED TO PARENTS:  Computer IGI       15 Oct 1999 SLAKE

Margaret verch WILLIAM

Chr:

5 Aug 1642

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Burial:

1 Oct 1642

Cilcain, Flint, Wales

Marr:

Notes:

                      Margaret ap WILLIAM-287 (Listed as Margaret Williams)
   BIRTH:  Cilcain Parish Records, 942.935cl  K20c Vol. 1, Page 26. Baptisms.
	"Margaret verch daughter of William ap Robert ap Howell and Angharad, 5 Aug 1642."
   BURIAL: Cilcain Parish Records, 942.935cl K29c Vol. 1, page 19.  Burials.
	"7th Oct 1642 Margaret daughter of William ap Robert ap Howell & Angharad."

   SEALED TO PARENTS: Computer IGI Addendum, given name.	 Margarat  William

SEALED TO PARENTS: IGI 1992 Flint Wales D0167, p. 989.  Given name.

FCID:2068:2006

William ap Robert - Angharad verch John Robert

William ap Robert was born at of Cilcain, Flint, Wales Abt 1596. His parents were Robert ap Howell and Mrs. Robert ap Howell.

He married Angharad verch John Robert Abt 1621 at Cilcain, Flint, Wales . Angharad verch John Robert was born at of Cilcain, Flint, Wales Abt 1600 daughter of John Robert and Mrs. John Robert .

They were the parents of 10 children:
Edward ap William christened 21 Dec 1622.
Pyers ap William christened 4 Apr 1627.
Elizabeth verch William christened 20 Nov 1630.
Grace verch William christened 14 Nov 1632.
John ap William christened 2 Jan 1633/34.
Griffith ap William christened 1 Feb 1635/36.
Robert ap William christened 15 Jan 1637/38.
Ann verch William christened 20 Apr 1639.
Hugh ap William born Abt 1640.
Margaret verch William christened 5 Aug 1642.